Q: They say that Poland is one of the best friends Israel has. Why is that?
A: It’s true. We call our relations special and strategic. ‘Special’ means the historical nature of the relations. I think that many people know that many of the founding fathers of the State of Israel were former Polish citizens, including one of the most famous: Ben Gurion. He was born in the town of Płońsk near Warsaw.
Q: Talking about the Israeli establishment, most of which actually came from Poland, there are anecdotes going around that people like former Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir quarreled in the Knesset, the country’s Parliament, in Polish rather than Hebrew. The connection was indeed very close…
A: If that was Golda Meir I’m not so sure, because she was born in Ukraine and her mother tongue was Russian. But others did. Israeli parliamentarians used to switch to Polish when they were in the middle of a heated debate. What’s more, according to some stories, until 1967 the commands in the Israeli army were given in the Polish language, so those listening in couldn’t understand them. This was discontinued, though, in 1968 when diplomatic relations were broken off. Communist Poland started to accept Palestinian students, so the Polish language began to be understood in the Arab world.
Polish-Israeli relations are based on a long tradition of ties between the Polish and Jewish nations. We have to remember the one thousand years of our common history, which was sometimes brilliant, and sometimes difficult. We must not forget the last chapter of this history, which was very tragic. Almost 90 per cent of Polish Jewry perished during the Nazi Holocaust in the Second World War. But coming back to the special nature of the two countries’ relationship. We feel that now our obligation is to listen very carefully to what Israel has to say. That is why Poland in the framework of the European Union, as well as the United Nations, is called by our Israeli friends one of the biggest supporters of the Israeli state in the world. The reason is that we are sensitive to Israel’s arguments. But at the same time we maintain good relations with many of the Arab states. One doesn’t exclude the other. But our main principle is: we try to listen first and to judge later.
Q: Can you give examples of how Poland is showing its understanding of Israel?
A: During a debate in the European Parliament some time ago, there was a discussion on whether Hamas was a terrorist organization, or as some said, a political one. Few countries decided to vote for the former option. Poland tried to build a solid lobby in support of the latter. It failed, but the Polish role is remembered here, just like the role Poland played trying to moderate the language of some communiqués or memoranda on the EU and UN forums.
Q: How easy is it for Poland to explain this position?
A: It depends on the case. It is possible to find allies for such a position, but it also has to do with some countries’ global spheres of interests.
Q: How does Poland manage to be a good friend of Israel, while at the same time being regarded as a friendly country by the Arab world?
A: Paradoxically, it is possible. Poland has a very good reputation in the Arab world from earlier times. During those years when we had a lot of students from Palestine, Egypt, Syria and Lebanon we earned a high prestige. There are a lot of people there now who understand the Polish position. During a visit to Israel and the Palestinian autonomy by Polish President Lech Kaczyński both sides, the Israeli government and the Palestinian authority, suggested that Poland should play a more active role in the peace process. Not in the sense of being involved like the big powers are. They thought that we should use our own historical experience to show both sides that the impossible can become possible. What does it mean? A small programme has been started by Poland involving Israeli and Palestinian educators and teachers. We bring them together to Poland to show them that there are some examples of bad history that can be overcome – like in the case of Polish-German and Polish-Ukrainian relations in the past. But it was very important that the suggestion came from both sides.
Q: Could you give examples of Poland’s efforts in defusing conflicts in the Middle East?
A: During one of the recent flare-ups, Poland was operating at the state level to balance opinions on the international scene. But very importantly, on the social level at the time of the artillery bombardment of northern Israel from Lebanon in 2006, a Polish humanitarian organization was working in the north of Israel, in addition to a Polish relief operation being conducted in Lebanon. Poland was the only country in the world whose humanitarian workers were present on both sides of the border. This was very well received in Israel. Poland also helped in the evacuation of European citizens from Lebanon via Syria, a country with which Poland maintains relations.
Q: How is Polish involvement changing the perception of Poland in Israel?
A: We have worked very hard in the past two decades to change Poland’s image in Israel. We have here a big, and growing Polish diaspora. More and more Israelis whose ancestors came from Poland have applied for Polish citizenship. Over the years, the Israelis with Polish roots have become very good ambassadors of Poland. Of course, thirty years of dialogue between both countries was lost. Diplomatic relations were not resumed until the late `1980s. In the meantime, Austria and Germany were able to carry on the dialogue, especially on the level of young people. We are doing our best to make up for that lost time. One good example of how we are trying to bring the two nations closer together are pilgrimages by young Israelis to Nazi Holocaust sites in Poland, organized by the Israeli Education Ministry. About 30,000 young Israelis visit Poland annually. But the tradition was for the young Israelis to only travel to the places where Jews were murdered by the Nazis. The kids came away knowing practically nothing about the Jewish past in Poland, about the history of Polish-Jewish relations. This did nothing to change negative stereotypes. In 2006 a joint declaration between Poland and Israel was signed concerning those pilgrimages. We have started a pilot programme for several thousand kids whose trips to Poland are prepared differently. Israeli guides are trained by both sides, part of the training is at the Polish Institute in Tel Aviv. New information materials are prepared to enable the Israeli youngsters to find out not just about the Nazi death camps, but also about Jewish life in Poland and Polish history. During their stay in Poland the children meet Polish kids and learn together with them. We are also thinking of youth exchange schemes. I hope this will help to change the situation I think it will be a very important achievement if we manage to change existing stereotypes. I am convinced that the Polish Year in Israel, happening this year, will go a long way toward bringing the two nations together.
Q: But even if generations of Israelis do have ancestors who arrived from Poland, does Poland matter to them now? They are now part of the Mediterranean world. They tend to fly back and forth to the US. They have their own concerns at home in Israel…
A: Poland does matter to them. Even if it’s not the real Poland, but Polin, as Israelis call it, the place where their grandparents were brought up, where Europe’s Jewish civilization flourished. The challenge for us is to make this real Poland matter. Not only as the place of a pilgrimage to the Nazi Holocaust sites, but a place where people can be proud of their roots, a place where they can feel proud of their history and culture. Besides, Poland matters as a big member country of the European Union, and as an ally of the United States. We are seen as one of the important partners of Israel.